Conversations with Jill Konrath, a sales thought-leader, author of best-selling books and avid Gamer -- Part III

As an author of several best-selling books such as SNAP Selling (#1 Amazon sales books) and Selling to Big Companies (Amazon Top25 sales book since 2006) , founder of the Sales SheBang and a premier thought-leader for building high-performing sales teams, Jill Konrath brings passion and well-articulated wisdom daily to deliver results to her vast and diverse group of clients.

… Continued from Part II

RD> Do you envision that salespeople have to be trained and coached differently to meet the needs of today's crazy-busy buyer?
JK> Look at the current buyer: The amount of information they're exposed to daily through all their "devices" impacts their ability to think and pay attention. They are easily distracted. They clearly have a “net it out” mentality. And, they get quickly overwhelmed with what’s on their plate to do.

A salesperson has to change their message and how they communicate with these people. Buyers listen to voice-mails with a finger on the Delete button. If a salesperson cannot sustain their interest, they'll get deleted immediately. With email, ExactTarget stated that the average person makes a decision to delete/read/forward the message in 2.7 seconds.

These facts force a rethinking of what it means to be successful to sell. In last year, a recent survey 49% of salespersons did not meet their sales quota. What do sales leaders to react to the decline last year? They raise the quota, so now 2010 will be even worse. They don't invest in the salespeople so they can learn to work differently. Instead they just cut the training budget to save money.

RD> Do you think the lack of investment in skills training is due to spending more in technology?
JK> They cut training when they get scared. Instead of figuring out what they can do differently, sales leaders go to an activity-driven work habit. Let’s do more of these sales calls and increase the pipeline instead of targeting more their efforts. They don't spend enough on appropriate technology and training to enable the best results.

The truth of the matter is that I think the training providers themselves are part of the issue for less spend. Budgets allocation is based on real ROI measures. Most training companies provide event-based training and convince sales leaders every few years to do the customer-centric selling or solutions-based selling or some such acronym based training methods.

The sales leaders in turn forget to focus in what helps them manage sales end-to-end from lead generation to contracts to up-selling. And worse, both providers and sales leaders never link the training investment to actual sales. There is little to no learning community to extract the tribal knowledge within an organization. There is very little tracking of sales coaching that is linked to again sales effectiveness.

Having said this, I think companies are realizing this and are forming sales enablement teams where they are determining a framework on that best helps the salesperson integrate their sales conversations and manage the tribal knowledge. Bottom-line is that sales leaders have to stop treating all issues as special causes and stop reverting back to activity based life (checking the box) whenever crisis hits.

RD>Well! [Chuckles] Thank you for endorsing our differentiator. I seldom plug our company in these interviews, but that’s what our software platform does i.e. give on-demand real time linkage and ROI to sales leaders, so they can effectively manage the entire buyer cycle and skills sets of salespeople that meet the buyer’s needs. We care about performance goals and not just learning goals.

RD> What do you think about the using social media tools and its current utilization?
JK> Right now, I am seeing a great seduction of the tools. There are many tools that capture all information about the buyer and that information can be very useful. There is good stuff available and the tools are a very cool aid to prepare for the sales calls.

However, the most important thing is the relevance of the information and how we use it on sales calls. On my website, I have information about my cat. So many people call me and say, “I saw on your website that you have a cat named Cali.” How is that relevant to our conversation?

This comes down to the critical thinking skills – or lack of them. They're not thinking about how to best use all the information that's available. I think this needs to be taught, or else the tools itself becomes ineffective in delivering results. For example, if I see on your website, that you are Lean Six Sigma person, then as a person selling to you, if I can integrate that information while selling to you, you will be more likely to listen to me. The value of the information needs to be appropriately leveraged.

RD> We are actually considering building some games that teach sales and service professional how to filter and use social media information that is relevant to the buyer or customer.
JK> Great idea.

RD> Not to switch the conversation, before we end, I wanted to ask you about your SalesShebang.com website. Tell me more about it and how it got started.
JK> Sales SheBang started when media folks contacted me and would always express “Oh! It is so nice to find a woman sales expert who can talk about sales strategy – and not just the soft stuff like networking and communications.” And I would always respond, there are tons of women sales experts out there that you should talk too – and I'd give them names.

Then I decided that I should bring these experts together and share our wisdom via a website and conference. The best part was having the extraordinary talented people like Anneke Seley , Anne Miller come together and send our message to more talented women salespeople whose ideas are under-leveraged.

RD> One last question, what do you see as trends in B2B sales process?
JK> I think that buyers will be harder and harder to reach. They will have more expectations from salespeople than ever before – and will choose to work with the ones who have good solid creative and critical thinking skills. Sellers who are proficient in this area will excel. I also see the increase use of technology to learn more about customers more quickly. And, I think you'll see companies doing much more online to attract prospects into "their world," then educating them as they're trying to make good decisions for their firm.

RD> Thank you Jill. This was a fabulous learning time for me.
JK> Truly my pleasure. Let's keep in touch so we can continue conversation.

Tweet

Conversations with Jill Konrath, a sales thought-leader, author of best-selling books and avid Gamer -- Part II

As an author of several best-selling books such as SNAP Selling (#1 Amazon sales books) and Selling to Big Companies (Amazon Top25 sales book since 2006) , founder of the Sales SheBang and a premier thought-leader for building high-performing sales teams, Jill Konrath brings passion and well-articulated wisdom daily to deliver results to her vast and diverse group of clients.

… Continued from Part I

RD> Your website and our website are probably the only ones that talk about critical-thinking skills for sales professionals. What is your definition of critical-thinking skills?
JK> When I started doing sales, charisma and networking skills were considered as salesperson’s key assets. Also, they needed to have strong product knowledge because it was their responsibility to convey all that knowledge to their customers.

Nowadays all that's available online ⎯ Prospects can go to a vendor’s website or do a Google search and find everything they need. They don't need salespeople for that function. Nor do they have time to meet with a chit-chatty salesperson.

Today the salesperson who wins is the one who is a problem-solvers for his/her clients and who uses critical-thinking skills where she/he can synthesize, curate and dispense vast quantities of information to the client.

This salesperson also needs creative thinking skills by which they are seen as “idea people” who can deliver results for the buyer. Both these skills (creative-thinking and critical-thinking) help them successfully provide the insights on the value of changing from the status quo – and how to do it most easily. This kind of thinking is invaluable to today's crazy-busy buyers.

RD> Are you seeing that many sales managers seeing these two skills as an asset for a salesperson?
JK> I would say, I see it as emerging awareness among sales managers. I don't see it though in middle market and small businesses. In that size company, there's the still the perception that a salesperson needs to be a fearless hunter – who will open the doors. Of course, these businesses struggle because they tell their salespeople to “go get the meat we are starving here.”

On the other hand, larger sales organizations are devoting more time to training salesperson to manage complex situations. They are business savvy and people savvy at the same time. They can navigate these complex buying-cycles.

Recently I was reading the book on successful leaders called Multipliers. In it, the authors Liz Wiseman with Greg McKeown mentions that one factor emerged as the biggest differentiator among successful versus average leaders.

What was it? “Intellectual curiosity”. Those who were intellectually curious and actively listened were able to motivate and facilitate internal discussions with “what if” and “how will” questions that led to multiplying the effect of the results.

RD> It is interesting you said that, I read about an year ago, an interview of Orit Gadiesh, the CEO of Bain Consulting with Harvard Business Review, where she says that, curiosity is what made her successful.
JK> That’s wonderful. I think that “intellectual curiosity” is a soft-skill asset for salespeople. Because if they can provide prospective buyers with new insights, share how other companies are solving problems – they are more likely to make a sale. The salesperson that is curious will step beyond the “old” skills and learn how-to use information to guide the buyer.

The old requirements of a salesperson’s skills are on a quick decline. However, there are many sales leaders who are holding on to that definition, in fact clinging to it. But they will not be able to deal with the new realities. I don't mean to be demeaning about the Sales Gurus of yesterday who still promoting these "old school" skills. Their wisdom was very effective twenty or thirty years ago. But with the advent of the internet and having “crazy busy people” as buyers, their strategies do not work any more.

Salespeople have to become more creative. When my daughter was younger, I coached her Destination Imagination creative-thinking team. I spent a lot of time studying how to help the kids be more creative.

One thing I learned that really stuck out was this: The only difference between people who were creative versus those who weren't was how their perceived themselves. Nothing else. If they thought they were creative, they were. If they didn't think they were creative, they weren't. It was the only variable.

So when sales leaders are asked to train their salespeople to critically think and be creative, it's hard for them to do if they don't see themselves that way. It becomes this vicious cycle. They do not want to experiment. They want binary “right or wrong”. They do not know how to deal with the continuum of possibilities i.e. degree of effectiveness. They are not curious about things like:
− “How can I make it more effective?”
− “What else can we do to make the client excited?”
− “How can we make this interaction where an objection not flare up?”

This lack of curiosity and creativity leads to average or low-performing sales teams. But those who can teach their salespeople these skills will have enormous success.

… To be Continued

Tweet

Conversations with Jill Konrath, a sales thought-leader, author of best-selling books and avid Gamer -- Part I

As an author of several best-selling books such as SNAP Selling (#1 Amazon sales books) and Selling to Big Companies (Amazon Top25 sales book since 2006) , founder of the Sales SheBang and a premier thought-leader for building high-performing sales teams, Jill Konrath brings passion and well-articulated wisdom daily to deliver results to her vast and diverse group of clients.

This interview with Jill is the seventh in our series about learning, games, social media, crowd-sourcing and work performance.

RD> The first question for you, are you a gamer?
JK> I am a gamer. My favourite games right now are word games. I have addictive crossword puzzle syndrome and start every morning with the New York Times crossword. I especially like the Thursday, Friday and Saturday ones which are much harder than the ones earlier in the week. As I've done more writing, word games have helped me learn and write better. I also recognize that Games and Business go hand–in-hand and I love solving problems, so yes! I am gamer.

RD> How do you learn?
JK> First and foremost, I learn by reading. When I'm interested in a topic, I do an immersion in it and read everything that is out there. As I read, I look for emerging patterns and start determining what is effective and what is not.

I want to first learn from the Masters and get a comprehensive picture. Then I start experimenting with different approaches and strategies till I ultimately figure the puzzle out. That’s where “learning by doing” comes into play. When I first got into sales at Xerox, I followed the exact same learning path I just described.

RD> I find that our age-cohort, you and I acquire information and learn very differently from the under-40 generation. Do you agree? What are the differences and similarities you see among those getting into sales profession now versus when we got into our careers?
JK> I am not sure if age plays a role. I think we have adapted to new way of acquiring information (which is not age-dependent). We have become scanners online till something attracts our attention. However, the content summary has to first wet our appetite in small chunks before we pay attention. This is very different to what probably you and I did twenty years ago.

I think people learn differently. My daughter learns via reading and can assimilate and process information and learn by reading just like you and me. My son loves physical learning and being in aviation he learns via simulators.

However both are not afraid of failing and they like failing fast. Our age group probably is more afraid of failing and will spend endless hours to get to the right answer.

For example, the younger generation will crash few planes on the flight simulator and then learn quickly to make correct landings. If I played flight simulator, I would do everything I could to get it right the first time.

Younger people will experiment more and they will say “Oh! That’s ok – I blew that light on the runway and I will do it again and I will correct it.” Whereas I will sit there thinking ‘Gosh I don’t want to blow it. I don’t want to fail.” I did the same when I played PAKRA Games.

… To Be Continued

Tweet

Conversations with Bill Forquer an entrepreneur, strategy consultant and a soap-box derby enthusiast -- Part II

As an entrepreneur, angel investor, executive leader, and soap-box derby enthusiast, Bill Forquer delivers strategic consulting using game-theoretic modeling that produces roadmaps for C-level executives on their best strategic moves that will preempt market changes and mitigate competitive responses. He is out there preaching the virtues of game theory every day.

... Continued from Part I

RD> Tell me more how these game theory models actually get used.
BF> Through a series of surveys and workshops given to the executives and thought leaders of our client, we extract the three components required in a game model . First, is the “who” ─ the players in the game. These are current and future competitors, partners, regulators, and any stakeholder that can affect the outcome. Second, is the “what” ─ what strategic options are available to each player. Third, we capture the interests of each player. What is a player trying to accomplish? The discussion around this third part is quite revealing because we codify all the players interests using a game theory construct called “preference trees”. A preference tree is a stack-rank list of all the options of all the players from most important to least important. Each participant role plays being a player in the game to construct that preference tree. The preference tree expresses the importance of each option either positively or negatively. That is, a player desires an option to occur, or fears that an option will occur. Priiva takes these inputs, goes away, runs all our mathematical models, and returns to the client with analysis and predictions.

RD> Then what happens?
BF> The analysis and predictions drive the strategic actions that need to be taken. Metaphors often emerge that help communicate that strategic plan. For example, “a rising tide” might describe an immature market where all the players benefit from a technological breakthrough by any of the players. At the end of the workshop, the client is left with contingent scenarios, has a deeper understanding of their market, and is well prepared when big headline events actually occur ─ like a competitor announcing an acquisition, a government scandal that triggers economic turmoil, or new regulatory surcharges on product shipments.

RD> Are these preference trees a proxy for risk tolerance of a competitor’s management team, and not just a proxy for preferences? If yes, do you think it creates a data collection bias because the participant in the room will probably bring in their personal risk tolerance and preferences while role-playing Player X? If no, how do you elicit those “real” risk preferences of Player X?
BF> Yes, it is a proxy for risk tolerance as well. We attempt to eliminate personal bias by confirming each preference tree with group thinking. We also re-run our models tweaking key assumptions. In terms of the risk tolerance of competitors, that comes out in the role-play as the participants need to really understand what makes Player X tick, including their risk tolerance. The team needs to learn everything they can about Player X ─ their personality, their history, where their leadership team trained, the tenure of their CEO, their ownership structure, their swagger (or lack thereof) at investor meeting events, their words, their play, and every piece of information we and the client can get on that player.

RD> How do you drive consensus?
BF> Sticking with our Player X example, a small team would be assigned to role-play Player X, use all the available information, and construct the preference tree. Then that team would appear before the entire group and defend their tree by stating the behavior profile for Player X. This leads to a great discussion, and often the original preference tree is changed. Once the preference tree is agreed to for Player X, we will inspect where Player X’s own options are in the stack-ranking of all options. If a player’s own options are at the top of its own tree, that is an indicator the player is aggressive and will act without fear or consequence from others. Conversely, when Player X’s own options are well down in the ranking it means Player X is more sensitive to the actions of others before initiating their own actions. The models can be run few times on our system – in order to take away disagreements and give a more definitive answer. Insights are the value we provide.

RD> Because your insights are only as good as the information you and the participants bring to the table, do you see games and simulations fitting into your workshops? And do you think there is value in redirecting play online where you could create additional simulations, involve more participants, avoid “GroupThink” issues, or facilitate better decisions?
BF> Today, we use our proprietary software to facilitate the discussion we are leading. But we do not install, teach, nor provide software for clients to use. Starting in 2011, we will have the option to leave the facilitation software tool with the client so they can spark additional discussion on their own. The question about a crowd-sourced simulation model and service is an interesting one. I can envision a cloud service of hand-picked or anonymous participants simulating a game model, and creating a piece of publishable research that Priiva would monetize. Right now, we do not have that in our plans, but we are not ruling it out.

RD> Thank you Bill. It has been most lovely to hear that you and Priiva have monetized game theory and strategic decision-making, something I intensely dabbled with in my past life. Wish you all the best with increasing your client base.
BF> Its rewarding to help companies learn to make better strategic decisions. Thanks for listening.

Tweet

Conversations with Bill Forquer, an entrepreneur, strategy consultant and a soap-box derby enthusiast -- Part I

As an entrepreneur, angel investor, executive leader, and soap-box derby enthusiast, Bill Forquer delivers strategic consulting using game-theoretic modeling that produces roadmaps for C-level executives on their best strategic moves that will preempt market changes and mitigate competitive responses. He is out there preaching the virtues of game theory every day.

Prior to working at Priiva, Bill pioneered the “Enterprise Content Management” market beginning his career at Battelle Laboratories. At Battelle, he developed software catering to library and legal users which eventually spun off the company “Information Dimensions” which was then acquired by Open Text Corporation. At Open Text, he worked for eleven years, having various executive roles in marketing, products and M&A. He coauthored a book “Enterprise Content Management Solutions: What You Need to Know”

This interview with Bill is the sixth in our series about learning, games, social media, crowd-sourcing and work performance.

RD> The first question for you, are you a gamer?
BF> No! I am not. Wait, do crossword puzzles count?
RD> Sure.
BF> I must say, early on in my career, I was introduced to “Great Game of Business”and the Open Book Management. I found it riveting so I introduced the concept to the entire company. We had great success creating higher performing teams. I like using games and simulations to help employees do their jobs better, and to open up communication that builds trust.

RD> How do you learn?
BF> I learn by doing.

RD> Bill, with your clients, you apply game-theoretic models and help them define and analyze market strategies in a competitive play. As you know, game theory is something I worked on for almost a decade, starting from my undergraduate days. So! I am very curious to learn more about what you do and how you began this part of your career.
BF> We complement each other as I’ve had no formal education in game theory. While I was at Open Text, I had an opportunity to participate in a workshop that Priiva (my current workplace) facilitated. Priiva uses extensive game-form tools and templates. This allowed executives at Open Text to analyze very complex market and strategic data, devise a clear strategic vision, and have an action-based game plan. As I was deciding to leave Open Text and determining the next phase of my career, I realized that these exercises with Priiva really helped me develop my thinking and was something that many companies need.

RD> What do you like about social media?
BF> They are very important for any consultant like me, as they are tools for personal brand building and awareness. Facebook and LinkedIn are especially interesting tools to help bridge the ever blurring of personal and work life. I bias LinkedIn for my professional side and Facebook for my personal life. I’ve both synched to Twitter which allows me to easily update either or both at my discretion. I like that.

RD> When you ran marketing programs for Open Text, did you find that with Social CRM etc, the marketing and sales roles are merging/blurring?
BF> The social tools provide targeted and robust communications, which can be used by both marketing and sales. But I don’t think the roles really blur. First and foremost, everyone in the organization is selling and that hasn’t changed. Corporate Marketing is the steward of the brand, but that stewardship must now accommodate use of social media, by lots of people, as a communications channel; so that responsibility is harder, but hasn’t changed. At Open Text, we had some blurring as I was a champion of having field marketing report to the sales organization. That forces sales to have total responsibility and accountability for their pipeline.

To be continued ...

Tweet